Creationism / Evolution / Intelligent Design???

HIs mother and father simply could have had many sons and daughters.. especially considering they had lifespans of lie 600 to 800 yrs of age.. and stuff..

I totally understand that Adam and Eve could have many children... Genesis 4 verse 16 says, "Cain went out from the presence of the Lord to the land of Nod on the East of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife." Is the bible put together in chronioogical order? I always thought it was. So does this mean there was a woman who lived in Nod. If so where did she come from? I never had the luxury of attending bible study. I was in public american school my whole life. So I can't help but be curious.

No, the Bible is not put together in chronological order. The book of Job is thought to be one of the oldest stories in there, together with the creation-story of course.
Luckily the internet is full of information. Search and thou shalt find.

Is it a coincidence that the Sumerian King List has rulers with extremely long life? Now you might think that it supports the ages in Genesis, but take a closer look at how long the Sumerian kings supposedly lived. The long ages in Genesis are nothing more than legends about ancient leaders. Anyone that takes Genesis literally should be very aware of Mesopotamic mythology.

it also share myths with both Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, the first law system written down that resembles the 10 commandments is a stone tablet from Babylon. not only that but the bible also share their calendar and way to look at the stars, why do you think the magi came from the east? the first historic books are all supposed to written during the Babylonia diaspora. coincidence? i think not.

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:it also share myths with both Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, the first law system written down that resembles the 10 commandments is a stone tablet from Babylon. not only that but the bible also share their calendar and way to look at the stars, why do you think the magi came from the east? the first historic books are all supposed to written during the Babylonia diaspora. coincidence? i think not.

Yep. Also, I believe it is King David that is the first major Biblical character that is proven to have actually existed and lived in the way that the Bible specifies, for the most part...there are some people who theorize that the majority of the first five books of the Bible *the Pentateuch/Torah* were written by scribes during Solomon's reign as he had knowledge and access to the mythologies of various cultures and elaborate poetry of the 'history' of Israel. Having read and studied much on Solomon, I don't doubt that theory very much.

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:
..and ash if i took you and a possible sister of yours and put you on an island. and told you to stay there and breed for 10 000 years...

I know incest happened back in the day, and still does in various places, but that is utterly vile to think about.

Oddly wrote:

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:
..and ash if i took you and a possible sister of yours and put you on an island. and told you to stay there and breed for 10 000 years...

I know incest happened back in the day, and still does in various places, but that is utterly vile to think about.

and yet hundreds of years of incest is the very base argument creationists have for how the earth was populated. science shows pretty clearly that it is not possible, even to many cousin marriages in a row will create sick and handicapped children

I guess, technically, I could be considered a Creationist, though I don't believe in the way Genesis tells it. I believe God created life or the spark of life; maybe its my alchemical background, but I just don't see how something living can something can come from something inanimate without Divine Intervention...

On the topic of incest and Genesis, I was in a private Christian school when I was a kid; I remember we had to write and present 'reports' on Bible stories we had learned over the semester and I chose the story of Lot and Abraham...When I actually read it myself, I noticed that the teacher had ended the story too early, where Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt...Well, I added the last part of the story to my report, Lot's daughters indrunkening their dad and getting pregnant and such. My teacher called my parents for telling the class the whole story.

lol

Oddly wrote:

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:it also share myths with both Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, the first law system written down that resembles the 10 commandments is a stone tablet from Babylon. not only that but the bible also share their calendar and way to look at the stars, why do you think the magi came from the east? the first historic books are all supposed to written during the Babylonia diaspora. coincidence? i think not.

Yep. Also, I believe it is King David that is the first major Biblical character that is proven to have actually existed and lived in the way that the Bible specifies, for the most part...there are some people who theorize that the majority of the first five books of the Bible *the Pentateuch/Torah* were written by scribes during Solomon's reign as he had knowledge and access to the mythologies of various cultures and elaborate poetry of the 'history' of Israel. Having read and studied much on Solomon, I don't doubt that theory very much.

well there are some others that probably existed. moses has an Egyptian name so he probably existed... this is how most historians today believe it happened. during the reign of ramses the II a man within Egyptian aristocracy named moses. moses leaves Egypt together with his clan, and maybe even for religious reasons since the dynasty of ramses was the first to build temples to himself and call himself a god. when they reaches Canaan the Canaanites had war chariots and stuff so they had to stay up in the mountain lands for some time. as they grow stronger from taking small towns after many years, the new clan leader Joshuah catches a few larger towns like Jericho, but it didn't really go about like that. for one Jericho newer had any city walls. the judges that where military leaders might have existed as well... the song of Deborah is genuine, suggesting she really existed. any way the cult of Abraham's mountain god is by now not only restricted to the clan lead by moses, but several. 12 of these join together to protect common holy ground, thats how many states where formed back then and the holy ground in this case is pretty obvious. the 12 tribes grow closer through the story of Abraham a supposed common ancestor. and in time they gain a mutual king, Saul. after him follows David who drives of the enemy securing the holy area. how ever once again the bible paint a way to glorious picture and there is no way the kingdom of David was that big. he is pretty much the king arthur of Israel. because of this new stability the next king can build the temple.

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:

and ash if i took you and a possible sister of yours and put you on an island. and told you to stay there and breed for 10 000 years, even if you lived to be 800 all i would find when i came back would be corpses with various signs of mutations and sicknesses.
an experiment like this has been made, a colony was created by a wealthy women. hoping to create an island where only "pure blooded" germans lived. the result was a catastrophe

nahh, their DNA and overall physical and mental state would have been amazingly more healthy, hearty and also much different then ours today. The rules of inter-breeding wouldn't work then, imo.

I believe the longer sin inhabits any species. including us.. the more those species degrade over time, regardless of technology or science. After all.. God did say that if we ate of the fruit.. we would surely die. Living under and being born into the Cursed creation has it's dire costs.

Evidence (skeletons, footprints) has also shown that "pre-flood" man woudl have been giants , even by today's' standards.. around 11, 12 feet tall as a normal height.. but that also makes sense... since a man with a lifespan up to 900 years of age would no doubt be both larger than a man with up to a 100 year lifespan, as today. This also would have made man better suited for life alongside "dinosaurs" or as I prefer to call them "dragons".

Also, it is has been theorized, that even the skulls and features of a pre-flood human would be much different than what we are familiar with today.. do to what we know about certain parts of the body that never stop growing, etc.

I also believe we actually used all our organs in a bigger way back then as well.. and as we have been corrupted by genetic degeneration through thousands of years of sin.. we have now devolved over the millennium to the point we are now of not really becoming what we are.. both physically and of course spiritually.

Our Ancestors old footprints..

In the US alone, these giant human footprints have been found in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. They are incredibly common and wide spread.

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:

Oddly wrote:
Yep. Also, I believe it is King David that is the first major Biblical character that is proven to have actually existed and lived in the way that the Bible specifies, for the most part...there are some people who theorize that the majority of the first five books of the Bible *the Pentateuch/Torah* were written by scribes during Solomon's reign as he had knowledge and access to the mythologies of various cultures and elaborate poetry of the 'history' of Israel. Having read and studied much on Solomon, I don't doubt that theory very much.

well there are some others that probably existed. moses has an Egyptian name so he probably existed... this is how most historians today believe it happened. during the reign of ramses the II a man within Egyptian aristocracy named moses. moses leaves Egypt together with his clan, and maybe even for religious reasons since the dynasty of ramses was the first to build temples to himself and call himself a god. when they reaches Canaan the Canaanites had war chariots and stuff so they had to stay up in the mountain lands for some time. as they grow stronger from taking small towns after many years, the new clan leader Joshuah catches a few larger towns like Jericho, but it didn't really go about like that. for one Jericho newer had any city walls. the judges that where military leaders might have existed as well... the song of Deborah is genuine, suggesting she really existed. any way the cult of Abraham's mountain god is by now not only restricted to the clan lead by moses, but several. 12 of these join together to protect common holy ground, thats how many states where formed back then and the holy ground in this case is pretty obvious. the 12 tribes grow closer through the story of Abraham a supposed common ancestor. and in time they gain a mutual king, Saul. after him follows David who drives of the enemy securing the holy area. how ever once again the bible paint a way to glorious picture and there is no way the kingdom of David was that big. he is pretty much the king arthur of Israel. because of this new stability the next king can build the temple.

It is known that the father's of Judaism (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Josef, Moses...) but their life stories are thought to have been somewhat elaborated in the Bible, as well as a few others before David's time. I meant David has been proven to have become the king of Israel and to have actually written many of the Psalms and Proverbs and generally lived as was written about him in the Bible. Yes, he is definitly the King Arthur of Bible times, and with Solomon, there is so much contradicting information written about him, it's difficult to know what to believe...but its fun to imagine! hee-hee!

Ash wrote:

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:

and ash if i took you and a possible sister of yours and put you on an island. and told you to stay there and breed for 10 000 years, even if you lived to be 800 all i would find when i came back would be corpses with various signs of mutations and sicknesses.
an experiment like this has been made, a colony was created by a wealthy women. hoping to create an island where only "pure blooded" germans lived. the result was a catastrophe

nahh, their DNA and overall physical and mental state would have been amazingly more healthy, hearty and also much different then ours today. The rules of inter-breeding wouldn't work then, imo.

It's still gross.

Ash wrote:Evidence (skeletons, footprints) has also shown that "pre-flood" man woudl have been giants , even by today's' standards.. around 11, 12 feet tall as a normal height.. but that also makes sense... since a man with a lifespan up to 900 years of age would no doubt be both larger than a man with up to a 100 year lifespan, as today. This also would have made man better suited for life alongside "dinosaurs" or as I prefer to call them "dragons".

I also believe we actually used all our organs in a bigger way back then as well.. and as we have been corrupted by genetic degeneration through thousands of years of sin.. we have now devolved over the millennium to the point we are now of not really becoming what we are.. both physically and of course spiritually.

Our Ancestors old footprints..

In the US alone, these giant human footprints have been found in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. They are incredibly common and wide spread.

Made by descendants of the Nephilim? Maybe? That would be cool...

Ash wrote:

Evidence (skeletons, footprints) has also shown that "pre-flood" man
woudl have been giants , even by today's' standards.. around 11, 12
feet tall as a normal height.. but that also makes sense... since a man
with a lifespan up to 900 years of age would no doubt be both larger
than a man with up to a 100 year lifespan, as today. This also would
have made man better suited for life alongside "dinosaurs" or as I
prefer to call them "dragons".

I dunno...Most people I know seem to shrink as they age...So, if they lived to be 900, they would be the size of an ant eventually!!

Dinos/dragons, call them whatever you want, it is just a name...but we have evidence of what they were and that is what matters most I would think.

Ash wrote:

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:

and ash if i took you and a possible sister of yours and put you on an island. and told you to stay there and breed for 10 000 years, even if you lived to be 800 all i would find when i came back would be corpses with various signs of mutations and sicknesses.
an experiment like this has been made, a colony was created by a wealthy women. hoping to create an island where only "pure blooded" germans lived. the result was a catastrophe

nahh, their DNA and overall physical and mental state would have been amazingly more healthy, hearty and also much different then ours today. The rules of inter-breeding wouldn't work then, imo.

I believe the longer sin inhabits any species. including us.. the more those species degrade over time, regardless of technology or science. After all.. God did say that if we ate of the fruit.. we would surely die. Living under and being born into the Cursed creation has it's dire costs.

Evidence (skeletons, footprints) has also shown that "pre-flood" man woudl have been giants , even by today's' standards.. around 11, 12 feet tall as a normal height.. but that also makes sense... since a man with a lifespan up to 900 years of age would no doubt be both larger than a man with up to a 100 year lifespan, as today. This also would have made man better suited for life alongside "dinosaurs" or as I prefer to call them "dragons".

Also, it is has been theorized, that even the skulls and features of a pre-flood human would be much different than what we are familiar with today.. do to what we know about certain parts of the body that never stop growing, etc.

I also believe we actually used all our organs in a bigger way back then as well.. and as we have been corrupted by genetic degeneration through thousands of years of sin.. we have now devolved over the millennium to the point we are now of not really becoming what we are.. both physically and of course spiritually.

Our Ancestors old footprints..

In the US alone, these giant human footprints have been found in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. They are incredibly common and wide spread.

1. "IMO" yes that is your opinion... but we are talking late neolithic / copperage here... and we know though studys of preserve corpses and skeletons that they had just as many kind of sicknesses as we do... and interbreeding is crazy dangerous because most of are infact born sick, but most of these require that both your mom and dad has it. to activate...

2. the flood was local, archaeological digs by believers proved this when they tried to prove a flood that covered entire mesopotamia. and even if wouldn't the flood have created a new generation of blessed giant people, since only the ancestors of seth survived?
also no footprints or giant human bones has been tested by objective experts and made it.

Oddly wrote:

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:

Oddly wrote:
Yep. Also, I believe it is King David that is the first major Biblical character that is proven to have actually existed and lived in the way that the Bible specifies, for the most part...there are some people who theorize that the majority of the first five books of the Bible *the Pentateuch/Torah* were written by scribes during Solomon's reign as he had knowledge and access to the mythologies of various cultures and elaborate poetry of the 'history' of Israel. Having read and studied much on Solomon, I don't doubt that theory very much.

well there are some others that probably existed. moses has an Egyptian name so he probably existed... this is how most historians today believe it happened. during the reign of ramses the II a man within Egyptian aristocracy named moses. moses leaves Egypt together with his clan, and maybe even for religious reasons since the dynasty of ramses was the first to build temples to himself and call himself a god. when they reaches Canaan the Canaanites had war chariots and stuff so they had to stay up in the mountain lands for some time. as they grow stronger from taking small towns after many years, the new clan leader Joshuah catches a few larger towns like Jericho, but it didn't really go about like that. for one Jericho newer had any city walls. the judges that where military leaders might have existed as well... the song of Deborah is genuine, suggesting she really existed. any way the cult of Abraham's mountain god is by now not only restricted to the clan lead by moses, but several. 12 of these join together to protect common holy ground, thats how many states where formed back then and the holy ground in this case is pretty obvious. the 12 tribes grow closer through the story of Abraham a supposed common ancestor. and in time they gain a mutual king, Saul. after him follows David who drives of the enemy securing the holy area. how ever once again the bible paint a way to glorious picture and there is no way the kingdom of David was that big. he is pretty much the king arthur of Israel. because of this new stability the next king can build the temple.

It is known that the father's of Judaism (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Josef, Moses...) but their life stories are thought to have been somewhat elaborated in the Bible, as well as a few others before David's time. I meant David has been proven to have become the king of Israel and to have actually written many of the Psalms and Proverbs and generally lived as was written about him in the Bible. Yes, he is definitly the King Arthur of Bible times, and with Solomon, there is so much contradicting information written about him, it's difficult to know what to believe...but its fun to imagine! hee-hee!

David is very much like king Arthur indeed. both drove away an enemy all before had failed to do and because of this they got a place in legend and over the years the descriptions of their campaigns just got more glorious and amazing. Saxon chronicles only report victory in the UK. but there is huge huge gap in the chronicles... many years when no rapport of victory are made. in other words for many years someone in the UK keep on kicking Saxon a.s.s. and during this time of Saxon silence no other then Arthur pendragon is stated in British works as the current king. coincidence? i think not! and this also explains why he was given a place in legend. the same goes for david and the list is longer. like for example they both get kings because of the most powerful prophet in the nation. samuel/merlin

Many believe that the famous Crusader king.. Richard the Lionheart, was the actual Arthur.

the same goes for david and the list is longer. like for example they both get kings because of the most powerful prophet in the nation. samuel/merlin

Even down to the scandalous infidelity *Bathsheba & Morgan le Fay/Morgana* and tragedy came from both...details are very different, whatever, still cool to compare.

History is da shizz.

Ash wrote:Many believe that the famous Crusader king.. Richard the Lionheart, was the actual Arthur.

no ash... no they don't
Arthur is 6th century while Richard is 12th and of Normand blood.... there is more then half a millennium between them! the legend of Arthur had exist for a very long time when Richard went on his crusade and richard himself probably knew them all by heart. Edward III (3 kings later i think) even build his own round table because he is a big fan of king arthur. it is true that the first complete work we have have about arthur is just like richard 12th century, but there are several lose storys and poems of him that are ALOT older then that

I know all that. I was pointing out that some people believe that.

and I was pointing out that none of those people can actually be doing any university level research on the matter. or at least not proper/respected research... even if you ignore that the legend existed before mr.lionheart was born. 3 kings is nothing back then, even if "camelot" had fallen, its ruins would still be standing tall during Edward III's reign. if lionheart had been arthur then edward would have rebuilt those buildings, instead of going all out on a camelot of is own. edward the 3rds only goal in life was to be seen as the 2nd arthur

King Arthy is cool.