American Politiks

stefan wrote:The anglo saxon society is far better than the native american one. With whom would you like to live at the end of the day, back in the 17th century?

Simple question, isn't it?

A simple question for you, perhaps...

Given my Mexican/Southern Italian/Arab/Asian roots and my choices are either living in a society of 'Anglo-Saxons' during the 1600s or a society that was brutally overtaken by them, yeah, that's incredibly simple.
Either way, I could have lived as an outcast peasant, be sold into slavery or brutally slaughtered...or would my fairer Asian-esque skin and exotic features have exempted me from the harsh life of the slaves or the poor villanus and elevate me to the status of a foreign whore for a bunch of rich 'Anglo-Saxon' dudes?

Ooh, don't forget the whole witch-hunt thing that made a grand resurgence in the 17th Century!

stefan wrote:Mexicans create mexico, Muslims create the sheisse holes of the world, Germans create germany, British create Great Britain, AMERICA is what it is because of its inhabitants, who were anglo saxons.

Imperialist Spain founded Mexico *actually Mexique*.

Germans make 'Scheisse', so in turn, I guess they would be the ones making 'Scheisse Locher' *shit holes*. Muslims, at least the ones living in Arabic-speaking countries would make 'Kharah'.

America's inhabitants were the indigenous people living here prior to several societies taking over it; now we have all sorts inhabiting the land. Even during the period that 'Anglo-Saxons' brought their culture and established the States, native people were still living in the land.

stefan wrote:The best countries in the world are european countries, so everyone else in the world tries to come here, and they bring there culture with them. When these people become the majority, then the country becomes more like where they came from, a crap hole.

Its kinda like you're implying the that the US is a European country, its not due to the fact that Europe is a continent, not a culture, and neither are we part of the European Union.

You are also implying *I use the term loosely* that all other cultures and lands not part of Europe are 'crap holes'. Wow, I guess the Bible and near everyone mentioned in it originated from 'crap holes.' 'Jesus' was literally born in a crap hole of sorts, so I guess that's not too bad...

stefan wrote:Well, I guess it depends what race you are, if you are not western european, then certainly you don't care about my culture. You see, race has a lot to do about everything believe it or not. It is your world view, history, language, ideas of right and wrong, and everything else...

...I just prefer to live around anglo, germanic peoples because I can relate both cultural, historically, and ethnically to them. I love our art, poetry, history, music, landscapes, and all the rest more than any other culture. It is the best in the world, hands down. Is this so wrong?

Ah! I knew I left something out:

Me = not Western European, yet I can speak English, French, German, and some Dutch and Welsh. Big fan of the whole Pre-Raphaelite movement and Flemish art *which is technically more Northern Europe*. Some of my favorite authors, musicians, artists, actors are/were citizens of Western Europe.

One does not have to be from a particular culture in order to appreciate or relate to it; often, people of different cultures appreciate the differences of each other and find them fascinating.

Maybe its because my family reunions resemble the cast from Disney's It's A Small World ridethat grew up, but I never saw 'race' or color as an issue. As a kid, I would ask questions like 'Why does my Uncle So-and-so have darker skin than us?' or 'Why does cousin Whatever have yellow hair and mine is black?' and my parents would just say their grandparents came from a different country. No big deal about it!
Maybe its because I come from a multi-cultural/multi-racial background that I've sought out other cultures to find things that I can relate to and can enjoy and appreciate and study.

One thing that I've known since I was old enough to know things is that there is no culture or race that is better than any other, and to hear you say otherwise is frightening.
If you like that culture better, then fine, but that does not, in anyway, make it better than any other.

No, we got this idea from the anglo saxon protestant warriors who bled for it and finally created it.

omg... that was the final nail in the coffin. you are so full of nazi propaganda that i am surprised you don't have a shaved head.
the democracy and freedom we see today did actully not spring from saxons but from the east. it was iranian and irakian kings that first wrote down human rights and the laws you see in the bible. it was greek filosfers that invented democracy, and those documents would all have been burned by the popes if some of them had not been in alexandria which was captured by the muslimes. who translated it and stored it in bagdad untill the medieval ages was over. musliems where the first to practise religious freedom in theri empire, the first to allow Christian and Jewish pilgrims to Jerusalem.

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:
the democracy and freedom we see today did actully not spring from saxons but from the east. it was iranian and irakian kings that first wrote down human rights and the laws you see in the bible. it was greek filosfers that invented democracy, and those documents would all have been burned by the popes if some of them had not been in alexandria which was captured by the muslimes. who translated it and stored it in bagdad untill the medieval ages was over. musliems where the first to practise religious freedom in theri empire, the first to allow Christian and Jewish pilgrims to Jerusalem.

Thought about touching on that and the various early 'Anglo-Saxon' societies attempt to destroy and supress the Codex Gigas, the Book of Kells, and other important references to Abrahamic faiths *as well as many others* and but figured I had written more than plenty.

every nationalist and nazi needs to be locked in a bunker for 3 years of intensive studying of history,philosophy and social science. it was not until the 1700's when what we in sweden calls the "enlightenment" happened. that freedom of any form started growing in the west. this is because of the fact that the church loses its power and the giant road block for all science that was the Vatican also loses its power. once again people read about the freedom and science of the east. before that we where just like, if not even worse then the terrorists of the middle east since we created them.

A modern day hero!

Not all cultures are equal, thats insane. Westeren European culture and society is far superior than most.

Why does everyone try to sneak in to our lands? hmmm, I wonder. Is it because there turd world sheisser holes are so wonderful.

I don't think so.


Come on people, lets try to use common sense here, see if you can think outside the liberal socialist party stance.


Oddly, maybe I am wrong, but from what you write, you are racist. You hate american and what it stands for, and hate white people.
Is this right?

Don't be so extreme about everything...come on, people.

Why are European countries "better"?

If people in the other countries wanted to live like us, do you not think they would? Of course there are situations where the people have no voice, even if the wanted to live like us, they cannot. But we have just as many problems as anyone else, just different problems. Why is prozac the 7th most prescribed drug in America, if we are so happy with the life we have created? We are not even close to being on the top of list of education or health care standards, half of our citizens are obese, yet we are the wealthiest (of course you will blame that on the immigrants). The country is not exactly doing great right now. So, we obviously are not as perfect as you would like to make us out to be.

I did not in anyway find Oddly to be racists or her comments to be racists or anti-american on any level. As a white person, I was not offended. I find it to be interesting that three of us have said more of less the same thing, but the only one you call racist, is the only one who is not of purely European dissent!!! How is that, not, racist? Really?

But I guess you could not have called ecethelion, assuming he is a white European, a racist against whites. Or me, a white american in San Diego who is dating a white man, of that either...'cause that would be ridiculous.

Now is not the time for moderation, and liberalism, as Geert as pointed out. This is killing us.

It is time to protect our culture and hold it sacred again, or it shall die.

It is time for other cultures to stay within there own borders and build up there own societies, and solve there own problems. We cannot bail out the world, and save everyone. We need to focus first and our own family and house and take care of it.

stefan wrote:Not all cultures are equal, thats insane. Westeren European culture and society is far superior than most.

Why does everyone try to sneak in to our lands? hmmm, I wonder. Is it because there turd world sheisser holes are so wonderful.

I don't think so.


Come on people, lets try to use common sense here, see if you can think outside the liberal socialist party stance.


Oddly, maybe I am wrong, but from what you write, you are racist. You hate american and what it stands for, and hate white people.
Is this right?

omg! this is like a gold mine, you keep on bringing up one racist cliché after another. first of that dude is not a hero, thrashing another culture never leads to good change only more war, and more conflict, more segregation. i am not at all surprised that foxnews choose to give airtime to a islamofob like him.

yes people are finally using common sense, the world is growing smaller and smaller for each new technological and infrastructural invention. they finally see that conservatism and nationalism is only the voice of the past, to comfortable in it's chair to rise and greet the future.

more ridiculous nationalism tactics... when nothing else works, you call others unpatriotic because they don't agree with you. i am not racist, racism is labeling people as of different races and claiming that some of them are superior to other. you do that, i don't. you are racist i'm not.
I AM A WHITE, BLOND, BLUE EYED... SWEDE, with papers to show that my family have lived in the Swedish woods for minimum 500 years... so me hating white people is down right ridiculous, you national socialists like how white i am so much, that you during the 40's build breeding hotels all over Scandinavia.
and I LOVE AMERICA AND WHAT IT STANDS FOR. i love that it is and have always been an alien nation, where more cultures then another place melt together into one lovely soup.
what i don't like is racist minorities that try to destroy that. that thinks that their culture = america... people like palin that say that there is a "real america" and "false america". "real america" being small redneck citys consting of mostly white conservatives.
i love america more then all nations but my own, call me silly but as a history geek and a archeology student, i love my own country too. but i love america because i have grown up in swedens and probably Scandinavias most multicultural town.

stefan wrote:Now is not the time for moderation, and liberalism, as Geert as pointed out. This is killing us.

It is time to protect our culture and hold it sacred again, or it shall die.

It is time for other cultures to stay within there own borders and build up there own societies, and solve there own problems. We cannot bail out the world, and save everyone. We need to focus first and our own family and house and take care of it.

1. conservatism has been killing you...

2. we fucked up the world, the least we can do is try to help.
first there where southern and eastern europe that was the center of culture,science and technology. we germanic tribes sacked them. thankfully their knowledge was saved in teh middle east who took on teh new role as the highest culture. but then we came again, as crusaders we fucked up the middle east, and threw them into a feudal society of religious extremism. africa had stone castles and roads when suropeans arived, the same with south america. but we sacked them, took slaves. when we got bored we gave them guns and reasons for conflict.
our fathers spread alot of crap over teh world, i for one want to make up for that.

So, you hate yourself and your race then, I presume.

Your false history is astounding.

The Crusaders from europe came because of the first muslim crusade against the jews, and christians. We got up in arms to save europe and Israel from the muslim occupation.

The vikings had democracy a thousand years ago. It was called the allthings, where the leaders of various tribes would come together and decide the matters of the day or "allthings" Eric the red was famous for this.

I am beginning to think Stefan is really some sort of Robot and is only capable of answering in the way he was programmed to do. Very strange.

It sounds to me that Stefan is the one who hates America. We have all said we love it for being a melting pot, which it is. He said he wants it to be more European and not a melting pot. If you love Europe so much, live in Europe. That seems easy enough.



The reason I am not listing facts and the history of the world is because that is really is not the issue. My concern is with Stefan's general view of the world and his mentality.

hahahaha no i don't hate my race... tell me if you met the slavers of the south, would you not dislike them? would you not dislike hitler if you met him? does that mean i hate all white people?

lol no wonder jay leno is able to keep jay walk going.
there where no "crusade" it was only bandits robbing and killing pilgrims. the romans had banned all jews from jerusalem. but since everyone enjoyed religious freedom in the muslim empire, when it was captured by the muslims... jews where allowed back. killing of jews is something that has always been the most common in europe and russia.
but like i said pilgrims where being killed. so teh pope held a speech promising straight passage to paradise for all that went.

don't try to lecture a Swedish historical archeology student on vikings.
sure we had a kind of democracy. eric teh red was not famous for teh allting. "ting" was when clan members of a nation(sweden consisted of several small ones at this time.) got together to vote. allting was for small stuff mainly legal matters. storting was for electing kings and stuff.
but here is teh kicker with our old democracy: it was based on the sword. the months before a storting consisted of war. the leaders of teh clans gathered armys and tried to kill the other candidates. who ever had shown to be the mightiest got all teh votes, because teh opposition was dead.
all ting was also based on the sword, if a man disliked his sentence or what had been voted, he could challenge teh opposition to a sword duel. if he won he had teh gods on his side and you had to obey the gods.
its not even sure that we invented the ting ourselves. we know that the vikings traded with the romans and it is very likly that viking nobles copied the senate to make the king less powerfull

ear-sighted wrote:

I am beginning to think Stefan is really some sort of Robot and is only capable of answering in the way he was programmed to do. Very strange.

It sounds to me that Stefan is the one who hates America. We have all said we love it for being a melting pot, which it is. He said he wants it to be more European and not a melting pot. If you love Europe so much, live in Europe. That seems easy enough.



The reason I am not listing facts and the history of the world is because that is really is not the issue. My concern is with Stefan's general view of the world and his mentality.

if he had a proper knowledge of history and "the world" he would probably not have the opinions he have. this is why education is so important, and why Obama must win

Well, I don't know every single detail about world history, but I know the basics. I studied poli sci for a bit and then architecture, not history...but yet I don't have the same opinions as stefan. Yes knowledge does impact ones opinions, especially when it is the wrong information but he is discussing race and more general world view.

Archeology is very interesting to me though. Probably one of my favorite classes.

I already voted for Obama...mailed it in last week. But my vote doesn't really matter in California, due to the electoral voting system, which also needs to change.

Early democracy was a experiment, just like the great experiment called the USA. No system is ever going to be perfect on this earth.

And how do you know suddenly that you have more "education" on these issues than myself, since you do not know me.

My Dad did archeology for a while, studied and has a degree in world history, language arts, and that is where my interest and first knowledge of these topics arose. Then I learned to teach myself further in whatever interest I had, besides our wonderful higher learning classes.

Anyway, this all is getting rather old, and starting to turn into personal attacks. So I will bow out!

Cheers!

ecthelion of the fountain wrote:every nationalist and nazi needs to be locked in a bunker for 3 years of intensive studying of history,philosophy and social science. it was not until the 1700's when what we in sweden calls the "enlightenment" happened. that freedom of any form started growing in the west. this is because of the fact that the church loses its power and the giant road block for all science that was the Vatican also loses its power. once again people read about the freedom and science of the east. before that we where just like, if not even worse then the terrorists of the middle east since we created them.

I feel as if Stefan has been sent to us to show any undecided voters lurking about this forum how badly the US education system needs to be reformed.

stefan wrote:Come on people, lets try to use common sense here, see if you can think outside the liberal socialist party stance.

Oddly, maybe I am wrong, but from what you write, you are racist. You hate american and what it stands for, and hate white people.Is this right?

I am thoroughly pleased that you were polite enough to ask, but no, I am in no way racist nor do I hate 'white' people.
I'm not entirely sure what you think America stands for, but I can assure you that I do not hate America or any other country for that matter.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like either you are not reading what I've been posting or just completely disregarding my posts because I have not seen you refer to anything I've said to back up your claims of me being racist or hating America. If you are authentically concerned that I am a hater of 'the white man', you may want to go warn my current blue-eyed, *artificially* blond haired love interest.

Edited to add: I do not endorse any political party, liberal or socialist or otherwise; I look at things and think thoroughly independently of any party's agenda.

ear-sighted wrote:It sounds to me that Stefan is the one who hates America. We have all said we love it for being a melting pot, which it is. He said he wants it to be more European and not a melting pot. If you love Europe so much, live in Europe. That seems easy enough.

Fo' shizzle!
I remember him posting several times that if people hate America they should live else where; that really confused me cuz I don't recall anyone saying that they hated America. Its also rather contradictory that Stefan would endorse the idea of people moving out of the US because they are unhappy while being whole-heartedly opposed to people coming to the US when they are unhappy in their country of origin...kooky!

ear-sighted wrote:I already voted for Obama...mailed it in last week. But my vote doesn't really matter in California, due to the electoral voting system, which also needs to change.

Ditto...on both the absentee voting and the feelings towards the electoral college thingies.

stefan wrote:And how do you know suddenly that you have more "education" on these issues than myself, since you do not know me.

My Dad did archeology for a while, studied and has a degree in world history, language arts, and that is where my interest and first knowledge of these topics arose. Then I learned to teach myself further in whatever interest I had, besides our wonderful higher learning classes.

There are always exceptions, but usually when people are well-learned, they do not say things in ignorance. Your dad could have studied archaeology and received manys degrees and be a very intelligent man, but that doesn't mean that knowledge automatically transfers to you. Likewise, just because my parents got high marks in school and became masters in their field of study does not mean I *or my siblings* do or will.

stefan wrote:Early democracy was a experiment, just like the great experiment called the USA. No system is ever going to be perfect on this earth.

And how do you know suddenly that you have more "education" on these issues than myself, since you do not know me.

My Dad did archeology for a while, studied and has a degree in world history, language arts, and that is where my interest and first knowledge of these topics arose. Then I learned to teach myself further in whatever interest I had, besides our wonderful higher learning classes.

Anyway, this all is getting rather old, and starting to turn into personal attacks. So I will bow out!

Cheers!

i don't question the amount but the quality... in sweden everyone study history, that doesn't mean they know anything. just the other day i had to explain to the dude behind me in the grocery store q, what kamikaze means...

ps: sure we can end this.. i don't have high hopes of making you see the truth anyway. the whole argument was getting kinda annoying. i don't like logging on knowing that i will have to write massive chunks of text

Is it crazy to find fun in pointless arguments?

stefan wrote:Early democracy was a experiment, just like the great experiment called the USA. No system is ever going to be perfect on this earth.

And how do you know suddenly that you have more "education" on these issues than myself, since you do not know me.

My Dad did archeology for a while, studied and has a degree in world history, language arts, and that is where my interest and first knowledge of these topics arose. Then I learned to teach myself further in whatever interest I had, besides our wonderful higher learning classes.

Anyway, this all is getting rather old, and starting to turn into personal attacks. So I will bow out!

Cheers!

I cannot tell who this is directed at. If it was to me...I was saying I am NOT an expert on the history of the world beyond basic information. And it is possible you have more knowledge on the subject therefore questioning eth.'s theory that you are uneducated and that is why you are so narrow minded. If I am less educated yet more respectful of other cultures I share this planet with (SHARE it with, it is not MINE), then education has nothing to do with your mentality. You simply think you and your kind are better than others. You can read every book ever written but it won't necessarily make you a more compassionate person. I don't like extremes, be it liberal or conservative, because it immediately excludes the other half, which I don't like. I would like to share and learn from one another, not prove how much better I am than you or them or anyone. I simply have nothing to gain from that.

Oddly wrote:Is it crazy to find fun in pointless arguments?

Not at all. I know I do.

Suffice it to say, when it comes to immigration, I am very right wing. On other things I can be very left wing. It just depends on the subject.